Anyone dislike TVXQ? Find them overrated?, is there any..?? Options

[C♥KAT-TUN~Shun]

i may have possibly agreed with you there if you said any specific member in dbsk was overrated. individually, all dbsk members are flawed and therefore at times comments from harcore fans are overwhelming and hard to digest.
but dbsk as a whole, i would say is close to flawless. i think thats the "power" of dbsk. that if the 5 of them were never together, their sucees wouldnt be half near as much as the 5 together- as dbsk.
i think their fame isnt insane. the only reason for it seemingly "insane" is because they arent just a korean boyband, theyre recognised throughout ASIA hence the "insaneness". You cant expect them to have any less "fame". Id persoanlly call it insane if dbsk didnt have the recognition and fame they have today because of their constant production of album &singles and promoting to not just 1 country, performing not in just 1 country but to majorly almost a whole continent.

It's the same case with any group, not just DBSK...a formation of any group is its foundation, without either of the members, it would not work, a group would not be able to achieve the same kind of success if a member is missing.

As for DBSK, individually I think some of the members are too over-rated, particularly Jaejoong. And as a whole, I still think they're over-rated, everyone has different opinions. I'm not trying to deny their talents & potentials, because I know they're all talented & are a strong group when they're together. But I just think the kind of fame they have now is just too much.

DBSK is a almost "flawless" group depends on how you see them as a group...do you see them as a 'music group'? Or a 'idol group' like they are in Korea? If you consider them a music group, then yes, 1 could say they're close to 'flawless' musically. But some ppl see them as a 'idol group' instead...and in a idol group perspective, they're quite far from "flawless" because they don't have the versatility & skills that other idol groups have. There's many idol groups out there, who focuses on a number of different areas, and some of them are truly talented & versatile at what they do.
DBSK is skilled, but mainly in the music area.

So it just depends on how you view DBSK, do you see them as a music group, or a idol group?
Individually, I definitely think some of the DBSK members are over-rated, given too much credits than they deserve I think...while there's other members in DBSK who I think are a bit under-rated. It's normal in any group, there's bound to be members who are over-rated/under-rated.

As a whole...I still think DBSK fame is a too much...they're very talented musically...but personally, the overwhelming fame they have in my opinion, is just too much. There's other groups out there which are very talented musically too AND have the versatility in other areas of entertainment as well & work just as hard in their careers...but some of them are still not nearly as famous as DBSK are overall...which, I think is quite bias for them.

This post has been edited by C♥旬:聖:亀: Oct 29 2009 7 23 PM

[♥ lavender rain]

(i moved your posts since the posts were starting to focus more on DBSK and NOT other stars. )


honestly i don't find DBSK's fame/popularity is tooo overrated at all. like i said before. it's the FAN'S fault for making them "overrated" but honestly DBSK has every single reason to be. i don't think i need to write about why cause every single person know this by now. XD so like what little_shooting_star said. i'd be MORE surprised if dbsk WASN'T THIS POPULAR or overrated. and gosh, it's NOT their fault that they became over night sensation in Korea! 8D yes. it really sucks for the other boy groups that MIGHT just be as talented or versatility in other areas as DBSK but didn't get to be recognized. but that's life. :/

also, it's NOT as if the fame has gotten inside dbsk's heads! they are still the same bunch of silllly dorks they are when they first started out. they haven't changed into snobby people because they are so popular. i guess this is why fans like them so much. they are SO POPULAR yet so humble and nice in everything they do. there is an endless amounts of GOOOD praise for them by everyone in the industry. no one says anything bad about them because they are truly goood kids so gosh why is everyone so dang jealous about them having the fame???

but seriously DBSK has PROVED they are MORE than an idol group all across Asia. YES. they might have been considered "overrated" in Korea because they weren't able to display their singing skills to the best of their abilities, and always been treated as if they were actually 'gods' but we know ALLL this changed when they went to JAPAN.

when they went to Japan they were nobody. they were so used to singing in front of crowds with MORE than hundreds of people and in japan, only about one hundred showed up!! D: they wanted to give up. but nooooo. in the end, they persisted and now they are becoming even more popular in japan. (:

seee. they might have not have to work hard in Korea, but when it came to JAPAN. they were able to see experience what it felt like to be at the VERY BOTTOM but with LOTS AND LOTS OF HARD WORK, they were able to make it out on toppp. so please. tell me? why does it make them overrated? and why does this make you think their popularity is overrated? heck. they DESERVEEEEEEE it, like i said a million times

as for DBSK members being overrated. once again. it's the fans that makes them overrated. but OMGOSH. WTFFFF? JAEJOONG is NOT OVERRATED. >_< sure he's a pretty boy and people might like him for his looks, but hello?? have you heard the guy sing?? he has PURE TALENTS to back it up! so this is why everyone really likes him. and yes. jaejoong MIGHT not be the world's greatest dancer in DBSK (who is also known as a dance group), but overallll seeing him fails makes him even more cute! :3 lmaoo.

This post has been edited by ♥ lavender rain: Oct 30 2009 9 09 AM

[C♥KAT-TUN~Shun]

^hey hey, just chill lavender_rain, no need to get all worked up like I mentioned before, it's just my opinion I am entitled to it aren't I? and I never implicated that I "blame" the DBSK members themselves for their fame, did I? All I said was that I think DBSK are over-rated, and I'm not the only one who feels that way obviously.
And yes, you're right, it's the fans who over-rated DBSK, so the ppl who should be blamed are the fans.

And yes, I do think Jaejoong is over-rated, he's a talented vocalist I agree, but so are many other great singers out there. I am entitled to my own opinions.

There's other great talented groups out there too, but are not as famous, yes, that's life, and it sucks.

I know you are a hardcore DBSK fan lavender_rain, and I can understand why you're so defensive of them, but just chill ok? No one means any harm, everyone is merely just voicing their opinions


This post has been edited by C♥旬:聖:亀: Oct 30 2009 9 22 AM

[oh`retro]

Haha, I love reading lavender_rain's posts everytime it comes to something DBSK related. It's always so intense & emotionally-written, LOL.

I think DBSK deserves all the fame that they have. These boys have worked so hard over the years. SM put them through a lot of sh-t & yet, everytime you see them on stage, they never fail to have smiles on their faces, singing their hearts out for us fans. I think talents wise, DBSK is definitely not overrated. They really are a talented group of people. Individually, they might not be perfect, but as a group, they're flawless.

HOWEVERRR, I do think their fans make them overrated. I get annoyed by fangirls real easily & when I get annoyed by them, I start to get annoyed by the artist. I don't know, sometimes, Cassies get really intense & well...you know how they get. They make DBSK seem like actual gods or something. Like I can't stand in voting polls & stuff, DBSK ALWAYS seem to be winning no matter who their competition is & no matter what the topic is. I mean, it can be like "Who raps better? DBSK or Epik High?" & DBSK will still probably win. That just bothers me.

Jaejoong...singing wise, definitely not overrated. That boy's voice is AMAZINGGG to no end. When I saw him live at Beijing Mirotic, I was in awe at how amazing his voice was. And it's not his fault that he has drop dead gorgeous looks, which makes people think that he only has fans based on his looks.

[angelazangel]

dbsk over-rated? to me, definitely! i mean, yeah i get it that they're really talented singers, but like my cousin said b4, there's also alot of other gr8 singers out there too! n they're also really good at doing other stuff like acting & all that...but why give dbsk so much credits when they can only mainly just sing & dance? there's other groups out there who can not only sing & dance, but they can also act & do other stuff too! so unfair! xP
looks? sorry, i don't find any of the dbsk members attractive...actually, i don't find many korean guys attractive...n jaejoong is pretty freaky-looking to me, he looks so much like a girl! argh! xP so i don't get why they're being praised for being "good-looking" either.

hard-working? hello! there's so many other artists out there who also work their butts off! sum of them are really very talented too! u think dbsk has worked so hard for so long n finally they're getting the recognition they deserve? well let me tell u something, there's also other artists out there who are also very talented n have worked their butts off for longer but they still don't have the recognition they deserve! do u think that's fair for them huh? no way!

n the fans just makes it a lot worse! they see dbsk like they're god or somethin' when they are sooooo N-O-T!

so do i find them over-rated? of course i do! apart from singing & dancing, i seriously don't see anything special about them! n jaejoong ain't that good in dancing, just so u know!

i'm so pissed off that dbsk are this famous just cuz they are talented in singing & dancing! argh! xP so what? there's other groups out there who are gr8 at singing, dancing, acting n other stuff too! these groups can do so much more than dbsk can!

This post has been edited by angelazangel: Oct 30 2009 8 09 PM

[WayyliEn]

hard-working? hello! there's so many other artists out there who also work their butts off! sum of them are really very talented too! u think dbsk has worked so hard for so long n finally they're getting the recognition they deserve? well let me tell u something, there's also other artists out there who are also very talented n have worked their butts off for longer but they still don't have the recognition they deserve! do u think that's fair for them huh? no way!

n the fans just makes it a lot worse! they see dbsk like they're god or somethin' when they are sooooo N-O-T!

so do i find them over-rated? of course i do! apart from singing & dancing, i seriously don't see anything special about them! n jaejoong ain't that good in dancing, just so u know!

i'm so pissed off that dbsk are this famous just cuz they are talented in singing & dancing! argh! xP so what? there's other groups out there who are gr8 at singing, dancing, acting n other stuff too! these groups can do so much more than dbsk can!

ok i don't really understand why you hate dbsk...
you said yourself that DBSK is hard working, they're talented in singing, and their dancing is good....what more do you want in an artist?
yea of course theres other people out there who work hard that didn't get famous...but its not DBSK's fault. and have you seen some of the other artists? people in taiwan like rainie yang, jolin (even though i LOVE her), HSHMM...they're the ppl with NO TALENT whatsoever but they're famous. at least DBSK has a reason to be famous. they're good at what they do and ppl enjoy it. if you don't think DBSK deserves to be famous..then who DO you think deserves it? because no matter how much you deny it, DBSK is still considered one of the most talented group out there. and in my opinion, because they're so talented, they deserve their fame

[little_shooting_...]

0.0 too much replies XD
i'll make a general reply then ><

i swear people have to get over the whole "damn! cassiopeia is the craziest fanclubs" etc or any other generalizing views along those lines. Its been what? 5 years since cassiopeia was formed alongside dbsk? theyre both growing and maturing together. I seriously havent heard anything negative off cass for ages now . Yes i admit they all were immature then, arent we all? but stop it with all this stereotyping stuff.

and the thing with polls i know too. i honestly dont know why people bother with those because no matter what the question is, its always interpreted as "Whose your favourite" XD trust that its not just with dbsk fans but almost everyone. like GD, 2ne1, snsd etc. Pleaes dont take polls to heart because really its nothing.
if anything is overrated in korea (and here) its definitely polls and petitions XDD

i still dont see how people find jae overrated but..surrre. whatever floats your boat. actually i think jae has this love-hate relation with people. you either die loving him or you just hate his guts. and its not like hes that popular until recently. i mean heck he was almost replaced a few years back!
im getting your drift C♥旬:聖:亀, i guess we're both looking at different sides to 1 coin ><. But i hope you dont view them as an idol group either =X cause you give me the impression that you do understand their musically talented. and they are, id never ever want to place dbsk to the same standards as idol groups because i know that theyre beyond that.

[x.whit.snow.x]

Hm, I don't think I find DBSK overrated. Fans may overrate them, but so do many other fans who support other artists. It's like how Big Bang fans promote them as the most talented group because they can compose, sing, rap, dance and act. Sure, many other artists can do the same things as DBSK, many even better and possibly even more, but that doesn't necessarily mean that DBSK doesn't deserve their fame or deserve to be recognised and loved.

What it comes down to isn't just how talented someone is, but also if they have a good personality. I mean, if someone was really talented but had a bad arse personality...I wouldn't be that interested. Rather, I'll follow that person's music and nothing else. Furthermore, "idol groups" are different compared to when DBSK debuted (I think they're much more versatile now). So really, you can't hold them guilty for not being able to act etc. because their main occupation entitles them to sing, and they themselves also put singing before anything else. I'll rather they only sing and dance compared to being active in other areas such as acting. Look at Farenheit for example. They focus so much on other activities (such as acting) that I can't even bring myself to call them a musical group anymore. Possibly an actors group, but not a musical group. I would love it if they could focus more on their music, to improve themselves, but it all depends on their agencies I suppose...

I reckon that DBSK deserves the fame they have. They may have shot to fame in Korea, but they had to work hard for it in Japan (not to mention the language barrier). They were pretty much at the bottom and worked their way up to the top. If anything, I think this should encourage other unknown artists to continue working hard, because it will eventually pay off. Of course, it would help if they had a good company behind them to help with promotions. However, if you strip away all the lights, lasers and costumes, the only thing left will be their talent. And that's what truly matters.

The only artists who I believe to be deemed overrated is if they have no talent, but are ridiculously popular. The popularity that these artists have should be given to unknown artists who actually have talent. However, it's a cruel world out there where many think/attracted to looks before talent. With saying that...it's actually not that bad to have the looks, because it attracts the audience. It's just better to have the talent to back it up.

Well, the thing I want to address next is Casseopia (did I spell it right? o_o). Sure, the fanclub may have done some crazy antics back in the days, but they have grown up. Everyone does. Right now, they are donating to charities and doing such kind acts. Certainly these deeds help with restoring their reputation...doesn't it? It's like Jae Bom's situation. He is being held charged against something that he has done in the past. Obviously, he regrets it. He has grown up and has redeem himself with everything he has done by leading 2PM. He was given a chance and has taken it on board. Hasn't Casseopia done the same? Therefore, let the past be the past, so long as they have learnt from their mistakes.

Moreover, one of the things I like most about DBSK is that they're very humble, despite the amount of popularity and fame they have. Some may change when they reach DBSK's height of fame (or a similar height). They turn into divas and believe that they are better than everyone else. But not DBSK by the looks of it.

Lastly, people have different likes and preferences. They also have different views on beauty. Therefore, some may find DBSK unappealing, but others may find them attractive. It's all up to the eyes of the beholder.

This post has been edited by x.whit.snow.x: Oct 31 2009 1 21 PM

[C♥KAT-TUN~Shun]

little_shooting_star - I'm glad you understand the point I was trying to make.

Hidden Text:

But there's 1 thing I want to mention is that although a lot of ppl tend to have this stereotyped impression of idols & idol groups...sometimes, my feelings towards this whole stereotype are quite mixed.
I mean, I can understand why ppl would have this generalization of idols & idol groups...after all let's face it, many if not most of the idols & idol groups out there aren't very good really, many only just mediocre at best. HOWEVER, at the same time, there's also a few exceptions in the pack, there's still some idols & idol groups who ARE talented & DO have a lot of potentials...and this is what irritates me about the stereotype, because some ppl tend to have this notion that "every" idol lacks talent & potentials, when that's NOT true at all! NOT all idols & idol groups are merely just "pretty faces with no talent".
So I can understand why there's this stereotype of idols & idol groups...but at the same time, it also irritates me too.

People also tend to think that idol standards are lower...but I don't think that's completely the case...ppl need to understand that being a all-round idol is harder than it seems, harder than being a a fully devoted music group, because all-round idols have to focus on so many different areas of profession, and that's complicated...whereas a music group only has to focus mainly on 1 area of profession. So it would be understandable for a music group to develop higher musical skills than a idol group...after all, music groups spend much of their careers focusing & perfecting their music...whereas idol groups spend their careers doing numerous different things, and it's virtually impossible for them to be "perfect" at 'everything' they do.
I guess this is why the flaws of idols & idol groups are much easier to pick out..ppl criticize & generalize idols & idol groups as "lacking in talent" & "mainly depended on looks"...but they tend to forget that these idols have to work extra hard & do several different things spontaneously...I feel that these ppl who criticize them should really cut them some slack.
Things are much easier for music groups because they mainly just have to focus on 1 particular area, it gives them more time to concentrate on their music & improving their skills in that area...therefore, they're more likely to develop higher skills in that main area of profession.
All-round idols have to focus on so many different things spontaneously, it's difficult for them to put so much concentration on just 1 area, because they have numerous other areas to focus on too.

So I don't think ppl should look down on these idols & idol groups...we should try to put ourselves in their shoes, imagine, learning & doing several different things spontaneously, all from scratch, it's complicated & makes your career & life all the more stressful...but it helps them to grow in so many ways.

The issue with idols having lower standards is debatable, and it's probably true...and many of them may not be very good at the things they do..but I still respect them for their hard work & dedication.
And remembering to acknowledge all those fewer idols & idol groups out there who ARE talented with potentials...so I would like to think that being a idol or idol group has its upsides too.

Sorry I'm going off-topic here...I just had to get that off my chest first.

Ok, back to DBSK...well, I don't see them as a idol group...more like a music group...after all, their musical talents are their main trademark (not necessarily their looks)...and they don't really do much of anything else other than their music...with a few acting roles from some of the members if I'm correct...but I don't think acting is really a serious occupation for DBSK, since it's more seldom they receive acting roles...it's mainly just their music that they focus on.

This post has been edited by C♥KAT-TUN~Shun: Nov 11 2009 10 11 AM

[little_shooting_...]

im catching on to what youre saying about the whole idol group issue (and its making me think more now ><) and you are right in your case. but i think your post about idol groups are sorta leaning towards the jap. industry... im assuming? im not so familiar with how the industry works there, but i didnt mean to degrade or look down on those specific "versatile talented" groups/individuals which you were referring to. I was more so referring to idols in korea when i said that. Because idols/idol groups in korea are rarely often associated with anything outside of music but maybe a bit of hosting or appear as cameo in 1 episode of a drama. Korean idol groups actually arent very versatile, and focus more so on producing music, yet still are reliant on catchy beats and tunes to make it to the top. So really they arent some singing wonder, despite how much time they spend their career on it. Yet they cant seem to entertain fans, since most werent trained to act or host. they are usually so so. The only 2 korean idol groups who i find are versatile and do more than music that i can name off the top of my head are super junior and snsd. So really korean idols are in fact overrated, but thats just my oppinion.
maybe thats another reason why dbsk were so popular back in korea they were an exception !! ^^
i think your post did kinda make me realise how hard it is as an idol, but i think their up side, is that in japan, their fans are extremely loyal. cause like in korea, old bands are always replaced after a while, but in japan old bands dont seem to be forgotten, they still do well on the charts when they release something.

[C♥KAT-TUN~Shun]

Hidden Text:

^ I was referring to idol groups in general, not just from Japan, or Korea, or HK, but idol groups in general. Taiwan has an abundance of idols & idol groups too, in fact, Taiwan is full of these idols...and there's also quite a amount of idols in HK also...and frankly speaking, a lot of the "less talented" of idols & idol groups are those from Taiwan & HK...but that's not to say Japan doesn't have their share of "less talented" idols...but if you look at all these idols & idol groups out there from all these different countries & regions, particularly the popular ones...the majority of the lesser talented & most criticized are from Taiwan & HK.
Japan also has quite a lot of idols & idol groups, but I'm guessing still not as much as Taiwan does...but looking at all the idols I know of & seen, Japan has more skilled idols than Taiwan & HK does. Because Japanese idols have been trained much longer & more vigorously than their Taiwanese counterparts, they are given much more opportunities to improve & build up their skills...Japanese idols are also more versatile because they do more things...perhaps more than any other country.
I would imagine Korea doesn't have much all-round idols & idol groups who do many things & are less versatile...and I hardly know any...the only all-round Korean idol group I know is Super Junior, since they also act & host, if I'm right...do correct me if I'm wrong.
HK also has quite a lot of idols, but they're also not quite versatile...because most of them only sing & act, and that's it...whereas Taiwan & Japanese idols do more.

But all in all, no matter which country you are from, the formulas of idols & idol groups are all the same, they all work the same way. So when I discuss about idols & idol groups, I refer to all idols in general.

But with that said...I think we shouldn't compare DBSK with idol groups (which so many ppl are doing), DBSK is a music group, they're different to idol groups...as I have outlined above...it's no surprise that DBSK are more skilled musically than idol groups, because they're able to spend much more time focusing on their music & improving their skills in that area, than idol groups have.

This post has been edited by C♥KAT-TUN~Shun: Nov 11 2009 10 11 AM

[Hazy Corruption]

Ckattun

Idol groups in General aren't like what you describe. I have noticed your meaning of idol groups lean more toward the Japanese Industry. Korean idol groups are what Little Shooting Star describe. Korean definition of idol different from others like Japanese and Taiwanese Industry. In fact, to be an idol in Korea, isn't what you really want. You see them get praises on shows for looks mostly, they are look down at on talent. Which is why TVXQ said so many times that they wanted people to look at them as a music group, not an idol group. I think you are misunderstanding some part because I noticed your posts are a bit messy, sorry to say.

1 thing I want to mention is that although a lot of ppl tend to have this stereotyped impression of idols & idol groups...sometimes, my feelings towards this whole stereotype are quite mixed.

People have stereotyped impression because of how Korean Idol Industry work, it's differ from Japanese industry. In Japan, idol can make it big earning a lot of money and still sell even if they grow old and get the respect. Where as in Korea, idol is just a one time thing, after you grow old, you will be replace and you don't earn as much. So people aren't stereotyping, they are just viewing it according to what the industry is like. Korean definition of Idol is different from Japan. It actually very different from the definition of idol in American. Many international fans noticed this as well. Not just you. To them, idol aren't very talented and just a one time thing, unlike in America, where to be an idol, you have to be like Michael Jackson, Cher, Madonna, Elvis Presley, (these are icon and idol, professional refer to them as idol very different from Korea).

Idol in Japan means, they sing, dj,mc, act and all that. But in Korea, it's just singing, mc-ing and creating trends, modeling, who is on the top list of a digital music chart, who dominate in the cf world. Despite them creating waves and all, they aren't respected and look up to in Korea. Very different. Although, recently a few of them has started acting.

Uee from After School in You're Beautiful.
Hong Ki from FT Island in You're Beautiful.
Yonwha from C.N.Blue in You're Beautiful.
SNSD and SUJU came close to the Japan definition of idol.
Yunho in Heading to the Ground.
Jaejoong in Heaven's Postman
Ki Gwang from Beast in High Kick.

But again, I understand that you understand that idol work hard. A lot of people understand that, but that's just how it is in Korea, idol are look down upon, view as untalented. Which is why TVXQ is different from all the other groups in Korea. They are an idol group that has talents, and they have prove it to Korea, but still, they are still being regard as an idol group, but only with talents. They are somewhat in a different category from all the other idol groups. Which is why most idol groups look up to them. TVXQ doesn't want to be an idol group, they want to be a music group, they want everyone to take them serious. And you kind of make them happy that you regard them as a music group and not an idol group. About them mcing and acting, please keep in mind that they are not promote as actors or mcs, they are promote as singers, it's just that the industry in Korea keep regarding them as an idol group. But, I think they have no problem in mc-ing, they're actually very good at it.

There were times where I thought they're overrated. But that just because I don't give them a chance. Now I think they are underrated, especially in Korea as singers. Particularly Jaejoong, he is underrated because of his looks, it overshadowed his talent in singing and the guy used to be tone deaf. Not just his singing but his composing (9095) is underrated. He seemed to be hated just because he looks good and automatically people assumed his fangirls only attracted to him for his looks. That's not true, his look is only a bonus. Then again, I am a fangirl, so I could be bias to some of the people.

And, some of you said that there are other idol groups out there that can sing better than tvxq? Please name them. As far as I know, in Korea, the idol groups aren't really that good in singing. Individual member of a group, maybe, but as a group. It's hard to find one. Please, an idol group, not a singing group. Because if it's a singing group, then I say TVXQ is overrated, because there are a lot of good singing groups out there. But idol groups, so far, TVXQ win in terms of talents. I'm not even saying this in a bias view. Really, Korean idol groups aren't that talented in singing. Give them Love In the Ice and make them sing live. Your ears will bleed.

Again, in Japan, THSK is a music group. In Korea, DBSK is an idol group, no matter what you said or how much they have proven themselves that they are more than that. They are still considered as an idol group. That just how Korea works.

Hidden Text:

tbh, idol groups in Japan aren't even that good at singing or acting. Some/most, not all

[Lorene100]

I don't dislike TVXQ. But I'm not really a fan of them either. I can understand what many people are saying about them being too overrated by their fans. I think their fans really take their popularity to a ridiculously high level. They are very talented yes. But I agree with those who say that their fame based on how their fans act, is too much.

About the idol thing. I can understand what Crystal was coming from. The definition of idols is actually not that different in Asian countries. The 'formula' of idols that Crystal was talking about I think she was probably referring the different layers that makes up a idol. In any Asian country, the first stage of idol is looks and appearance. It's the same anywhere in Asia; Japan, Korea, Taiwan etc. Being a idol, looks is the first priority. To be a idol in Asia, anyone can do it as long as they have good looks. That is the first step. Then it's your skills that comes later on. This is why many people do not have a good impression of idols. Because many think it's mainly just about the looks for them. In Korea, idols are looked down on because they are viewed this way. It's actually the same in Japan too. Yes, idols in Japan can still make a lot of money. And it's the same case in Taiwan and Hong Kong too. But in these countries, idols are also looked down on at the same time. In the sense that they are not regarded highly for their skills. But you would think with the popularity of idols in Japan. The japanese idols make the most money in Japan. But that's actually not completely true. Many of them actually don't make that much money in Japan. Only some of the very famous make very big money.
In Asia, the definition of idols is basically 'entertainers', it's the same in any Asian country. Idols in Japan are very popular not really because of their skills. But because they are entertainers, they entertain the public. And they have good looks. They make big money through their entertainment. It's the same in Taiwan and Hong Kong. I think it's also probably the same in Korea too. Only that maybe idols in Korea are just not that popular like those in Japan and Taiwan etc. But idols are still viewed the same way all across Asia. I think this is what Crystal was trying to say. Asian idols have same stages; firstly looks, then skills. Many people generalize Asian idols because they are very much the same. No matter which Asian country they are from.
But I also agree with Crystal that there are still some idols who are talented, have skills and still have good looks too. So this generalization of idols is a bit unfair.

This post has been edited by Lorene100: Nov 9 2009 8 33 AM

[C♥KAT-TUN~Shun]

^yep that was my point exactly Lorene!

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I have noticed that the definition of 'idols' is quite different in Asia than in the western countries...but it's all the same in asia...no matter where you're from, Japan, Korea, Taiwan or HK etc...asian idols & idol groups have always been stereotyped by many ppl as those with looks & appearance being their main trademark...instead of their talents & skills...it's all the same in asia...idols & idol group are often "looked down" upon the same way; mainly looks, little talent.
Obviously idols & idol groups are more popular in Japan, Taiwan & HK, than in Korea...but they're seen as all the same. Lorene is right about the idols in Japan...fresh, young attractive idols & idol groups are the trend in Japan...likewise in Taiwan...however, they are also not thought of very highly because many see them as having what they say "lack of" talents. In Japan & Taiwan, although idols are very popular & still make a lot of money...but they are often seen as just "idols", they make money doing different things, 'entertaining' fans etc. Idols are promoted a lot more, do more things, there's lots of exposure for them, in return they become famous, thus generating lots of money.
No matter which asian country it is, the idol industry is mostly about looks, promotions & making money...and not so much the talents itself. That's why there is this stereotype of idols & idol groups.

Think about it...why are DBSK viewed differently in Korea & Japan? In Korea, they are seen as just a 'idol group', but in Japan they are considered a 'music group'...if the definition of 'idols' is different in both countries...then what difference does it make whether or not DBSK is seen as a 'music group' or 'idol group' in Japan? It is because that the definition of 'idols' & 'idol groups' are all the same in Asia...'idols' are seen pretty much the same way in Korea & Japan...the only difference is perhaps that idols attract more support & fanbase in Japan & Taiwan/HK, than in Korea...but that doesn't necessarily mean idols in Japan & Taiwan/HK are being "classed" any higher than they are in Korea...idols tend to have more popularity & generate more money...but that is pretty much all that many ppl view them as...and not so much the talent. That's the stereotype of asia idols in general. But often there are still a few good idols & idol groups lurking in that stereotype who are truly talented with real potentials...it's just disappointing that they're being included in this stereotype too.

DBSK are considered a 'music group' in Japan, because they are seen as being different to the typical stereotyped asian idol & idol groups...if they were to be seen as a 'idol group' in Japan too, then it would be no different to how they are now seen in Korea. But they are seen differently in Japan...not because that the Japanese view 'idols' differently to the Koreans...but it is since that idols are being seen very similarly in both countries, that DBSK are being regarded as a different kind of group in Japan.
If idols are being "classed" any higher in Japan, than they are in Korea...then it doesn't really make that much of a difference whether or not DBSK are seen as a 'idol group' in Japan. Do you understand what I mean?

Honestly...I think Korea has much more idols & idol groups than ppl may think...or at least being considered 'idols' in the country...initially I thought that there aren't many idols in Korea...but now thinking back more carefully, I realized that there's actually quite a lot of them. I think to avoid that classification of 'idols' in Korea is quite difficult. For Korean idols...they may not be as versatile & don't do as many things as their Japanese & Taiwanese counterparts...but the whole stereotype of appearance before talent & "money magnets" exists...it exists with idols in general.
And I think that's probably why DBSK are being viewed as a 'idol group' in Korea...they're seen as major "money magnets"...though they don't really do much else other than their music...but they can sell big...and to some ppl, they have the looks too.
In Japan however...it's not their looks or appearance that attracts, it's their music...after all, when they started out in Japan, they were virtually nobodies, they couldn't use their looks because it failed to appeal. So what really finally attracted so many ppl to them? It was their music, and their musical skills, this is why they are seen as a 'music group' in Japan.
In Korea however, they're seen as just idols, generating a lot of money...I think their music is what comes later.

I also think the fact that DBSK is a foreign group in the Japanese music scene is also 1 reason why they're viewed differently to a typical idol group, they can use mainly their music to sell in Japan...which is not how a typical idol group works.

This post has been edited by C♥KAT-TUN~Shun: Nov 11 2009 10 04 AM

[Hazy Corruption]

The thing with Japan and Korea is that, in Japan, they actually look at talents and if you are talented enough, they'll recognize you as an artist. That's how THSK was viewed as an artist. While in Korea, no matter what, you will get generalize depend on how you are market, which company you come from. I wasn't clear on my other post, but yeah, that's what I want to explain. Japanese people are willing to accept you if you have talent even if you are an idol, they'll recognize you as a singer if you are very good in singing. While in Korea, it's not like that, "once an idol, always an idol." They don't take you seriously. Unless you do something very very significantly.


I don't know what the topic is now hahaha. But I remembered you said that TVXQ is overrated in terms of idol star? It's actually the audience in South Korea that still refer to them by top idol or asia idol stars or something, they still refused to acknowledge them as artist or singers.

[Lorene100]

The thing with Japan and Korea is that, in Japan, they actually look at talents and if you are talented enough, they'll recognize you as an artist. That's how THSK was viewed as an artist. While in Korea, no matter what, you will get generalize depend on how you are market, which company you come from. I wasn't clear on my other post, but yeah, that's what I want to explain. Japanese people are willing to accept you if you have talent even if you are an idol, they'll recognize you as a singer if you are very good in singing. While in Korea, it's not like that, "once an idol, always an idol." They don't take you seriously. Unless you do something very very significantly.


I don't know what the topic is now hahaha. But I remembered you said that TVXQ is overrated in terms of idol star? It's actually the audience in South Korea that still refer to them by top idol or asia idol stars or something, they still refused to acknowledge them as artist or singers.

That's actually not true. In Japan, it's the same. When you are seen as a idol, you will always be seen as a idol. Take the Johnny Entertainment guys. They are the most famous idols in Japan and are the most popular Japanese idols all across Asia. But people still see them as idols even when some of them are truly very talented singers and performers. It's really the same in Japan and Korea. And if you go and ask some fans of these JE guys. You will realize that even some of their fans regard them as just idols and love them for their entertainment mainly. And not for their music. Of course other fans still love their music and know they are talented. But some just see them as idols. And they are always been regarded as idols by the media people too. So there is really not much of a difference.

But people see TVXQ differently. Because they depend mostly on their songs and music in Japan. And it is what sells for them in Japan. For idols in Japan, everything sells for them.

This post has been edited by Lorene100: Nov 11 2009 7 16 AM

[C♥KAT-TUN~Shun]

Hidden Text:

I'm not 100% sure about the "when you are considered a idol, you will always be seen as a idol" part in Japan.

but either way, my point the whole time is that this whole stereotype & formation of idols are all the same in asia; image & appearance first, skills later...that's how many ppl see asian idols in general; mainly looks, not so much the talent.
In Japan, ppl uses the word "idol" a awful lot...they use it to refer to idols, & the young generation of actors. Idols are still very well received in Japan that's why they have a lot of support...and those very popular ones (like the JE guys) are called 'super idols'...but again, it's not really due to their skills...it's mainly because of their huge popularity that they're called 'super idols'...and I think that hasn't changed for yrs in Japan...some idols from older generations are still being called 'idols' today..regardless of what has happened in their careers over the yrs, or whether or not their talents have been recognized...although a lot of them still have won awards etc...but much of them are popularity awards voted by their fans...with only a few of them ever winning any kind of talent or honorary award. And depending on their popularity, if they're still very popular till this day, they may been considered a 'super idol'...but nonetheless, they're still being referred to as "idols"...not sure if that will change in the future. Alot of the older generations of the japanese public actually don't like & don't appreciate the younger & current generation of idols...these young idols mainly attract their own generation of ppl & are often praised by media too.
Alot of the young current generation of actors are also being referred to as idols in Japan...although their main profession is acting & not like those all-round idols...but there's still that stereotype of looks before talent for them, that's why they're being called 'idols' & popularity does play a big part in it too. It's very similar in Taiwan/HK & Korea too...it's either the case of trying to be versatile, or looks before talent.

Now come to think of it...I think DBSK may be considered as a 'super idol' in Japan too...in terms of popularity at least...but to a much larger extent, I think they are still mainly seen as a music group, as their main attraction is their music...and that is still different to the mainstream idols.

This post has been edited by C♥KAT-TUN~Shun: Nov 11 2009 10 14 AM

[HObear♥zHai]

TVXQ is not overrated..really..
they deserved the popularity they have now..
because they are really talented and are all very good looking...
they're the only group i have seen with talent and looks all in one...
and they really work hard to improve themselves...

it's quite sad to admit that they are really seen as an "idol group"
in korea because some/most of the fans only appreciate their looks
and it overshadows their talent in singing...
but think about it..minus the looks, they could still be
appreciated in their singing ability...
i for one appreciates them in their singing...
never before in my life
i have heard a group with a really great harmony...
when they sing, it just feels soo right...
and im being true here...because really, i first heard TVXQ..
not seen them...
i heard their song "Hug" first, before i watched their MVs..
and i was amazed at how good they harmonize...
then i only appreciated their looks after seeing them in their MVs..

i am quite happy that they are seen as a "music group" in japan...
they're not like some other jpop artist that are seen as "idol groups"
just like in korea..
and they really proved to the jap. fans that they are good at what they
are suppose to be good at..and thats "singing"...


This post has been edited by HObear♥zHai: Nov 11 2009 10 49 AM

[C♥KAT-TUN~Shun]

just want to clear this up...

About idols in Japan...I was chatting with a Japanese friend the other day & we talked about it...turns out that I was wrong about it in some parts.
'Idol' is not only used to refer to the mainstream all-around idols in Japan, but also other kinds of artists like actors and singers (particularly the younger generations). And it's not always just about the looks, or the popularity...I was right about idols being highly regarded in Japan, that's why they have a lot of support & fans. But I was wrong on certain other parts, and so were some of you guys too..

my japanese friend Mimiko-chan has read all our posts, this is what she had prepared the other day regarding this topic (she mentions DBSK too), she wanted me to post it up to clarify some things regarding this topic:

the term “idol” we use in japan varies, it’s not just one kind of definition or reference. although it is most commonly used for actual idols who do a whole lot of different stuff, but this term is used not just for them, but also young singers and actors in japan too. and being called a “idol” or a “idol group” in japan does not always mean we degrade their talents or look more closely at their looks. sometimes when we call a artist a “idol”, it can mean that this person is highly respected, renown, and this can be because of many different reasons. most commonly, we use the term “idols” for someone who do different things, and yes, talents may not always be seen as the most important but it does not mean we don’t care about it. i think this is how many foreigners believe our definition of “idols” mean. but what they don’t know is that “idols” can be used for other kind of artists too. and sometimes when a artist is called a “idol”, it does not always mean that we see their appearance first, or it’s mainly because of the entertainment they gives us or their popularity. at times, it is actually all of those qualities but also plus the talents all combined together. we also use “super idol” for the very popular too.
take takuya kimura for example, he is most commonly known as a “star” actor in many countries, renown for his great acting skills. but in japan, sometimes he is still being called a “idol”, or “super idol”. but that is not trying to degrade him in any way. he is a megastar in japan, our pride, our biggest star overseas, but we sometimes still call him a “idol” because in many eyes of us japanese, he is our 'idol', our 'pride'. he started out being part of the very popular “idol group” smap who debut in the early 90s. smap are legendary idols from johnny jimusho.
another example is the singer gackt, he is not one of those idols that do different things, he is a singer, like tohoshinki, highly respected and loved for his music and his singing talents. but believe it or not, there’s some japanese who also calls him a “super idol”. because he is a highly talented singer idolized by many in japan.

our definition of “idol” varies, and it can be confusing especially for foreigners who don’t understand how us japanese use our definitions and terms. the usage of the term “idol” is a bit confusing for even some japanese, because some japanese believe it is used for one kind of artist only. but that is not true, there’s a lot of variations that comes with this term. but most commonly foreigners believe our use of the term is the same as everyone else. that’s not completely correct, believe it or not, sometimes we use that term “idol” similar to how they use it in the west…like the term is being used to call the contestants on american idol or something.

idols also make alot of money in japan...but how much depends on who the artist is...many of them make a lot of money, but not the kind of amount to be "wealthy".

tohoshinki is most commonly being called a music group in japan, but they can still be called a “idol group” too. and that doesn’t have to be a degrading thing. sometimes when we call a artist a “idol”, we mean this artist is very respected and sort-after, very popular, someone who is idolized by many, and whose talents are still being noticed. so there’s a lot of variations there, sometimes artists who are being called “idols” in japan can be seen similarly to how idols are seen in other parts of asia too, but not always. sometimes, but not as commonly, we also use the term as a meaning of someone of high class, like takuya kimura.
so you were all right with your explanations, but none of you were completely correct.

after reading this, I've gained a more broader understanding of how "idols" are seen in Japan.