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Origins of Korean people and relation to other Asians


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#1 SNK_1408

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Posted 24 September 2009 - 08:33 AM

Please note, this is not trolling or in any way to racially bash Korean people. I'm Korean born overseas Korean, I've left my birth country long ago and I don't have much relation with Korea other than I have very large relatives still living in both North & South Korea. Some of my cousins are live in China, Japan and USA.

There are some big misunderstandings and myth related to origins of Koreans, to many westerners Koreans are some where between Chinese and Japanese, and for Chinese people specially these from Northern China (mainland Chinese), Koreans are just another Chinese people which are most common myths.

For these interested in reading scientific research, here is the paper.
The Peopling of Korea Revealed by Analyses of mt DNA and Y-Chromosomal Markers
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlere...;tool=pmcentrez

Which gives you pretty accurate picture of average Korean in terms of genetic research POV.

At this thread I would like to clarify some myths surrounding origins of Koreans.

As most people know, today's Korea is divided into two countries, one at North and other one at South parts of Korean peninsula. Please note the term 'Koreans' refers to people in Korean peninsula, ancient Koreans were often called Kori and sometimes called people of Han (not related to Han Dynasty).

Today, modern Koreans have multiple ancient origins but remained one of most homogeneous people on earth, and I would say probably the most homogeneous people among other homogeneous people. This was possible because Korean kingdom was largely unknown or mysterious to foreigners other than Chinese, Mongolian, Japanese and few NE Asian tribes. Due to last dynastic ruler of Korean kingdom blocked foreigners entering Korea, Korea earned the name of hermit kingdom. Btw, Korea was only open its door to foreigners well after late 19th century.


Myth 1: Koreans are Mongolian or came from Mongolian tribes
Answer 1: Wrong, Koreans are one of the Mongoloids but not actually related to Mongolian.

Physical appearance of average Korean people reflects the geography of Korea hence there are many theories relating to founding legends of Korean people.

Myth 2: Koreans and Japanese are related
Answer 2: Not that related as originally thought, Koreans and Japanese shared some common physical traits which again only reflects the climate/geographic location.

If you read the scientific DNA research papers, Koreans and Japanese are most closest among other Asians if we use the mt-DNA analysis. But not so similar when using Y-chromosome analysis (Full analysis of comparison can be view from above scientific research paper link provided).

Myth 3: Koreans were came from ancient Chinese people
Answer 3: It depends how people want to trace back far, if Koreans came from ancient Chinese, then we might just call it all Asians are related hence modern humans have began from African continent. The answer is big 'No'.
Using mt-DNA analysis, Koreans have totally different patterns from Chinese mt-DNA, however Koreans do carried one prominent Y-chromosome that largely exist in Chinese people, however we can't just use one Y-chromosome marker as 'related' due to every Asians have this Y-chromosome marker.

Myth 4: Koreans are Tungusic people or related to Tungusic tribes
Answer 4: Not really, only 50% of Koreans show Tungus origin patterns. I would say Koreans have multi-tribal origins of NE Asian continent.

Misunderstandings:
1. Where the hell ancient Korean tribes immigrated from?

There are many theories what, where, how they originated. There isn't definite answer to this question as humans are constantly moving around. It is believed to be oldest human + relic remains in Korean peninsula dating back to 8000BC, which roughly translate 10,000 years of early human migration during ice age. When ice melted during last major ice age (around 11000BC~10000BC), tribes started immigrating to warming climate lands. I'm guessing this is where first ancient Korean appeared in Korean peninsula.

Here is what most Korean scholars believes where ancient people moved into Korean peninsula.
Posted Image

2. Korean language is related to Japanese or Chinese or what ever

Please note modern Korean language is different from ancient Korean language (Old Korean or Proto-Korean tribal language). Modern Korean language is largely owed to creation of Korean alphabet back in 1446AD and largely have not changed until today other than imported foreign words and phrases. Grammar, accent & dialects are kept largely unchanged since 15th century.

Also, modern Korean vocabulary use many Sino-Korean words (Chinese words pronounced in Korean), around 60% of words in Korean is Sino-Korean words but this has been decreased to around 40% due to other foreign words replaced the old words (mainly from English/European).

Korean language also have slang words, accents, dialects and native Korean words (some are still used or others are simply not used today, but still kept records of them).

There are some nationalistic approach movement in Korea to use 100% native Korean words in order to preserve them to next generations. By using native Korean words, Korean language will sound very different.

There are some theory of Mongolian and Japanese language could have influenced Korean language as Korean was once under Mongolian empire as many Mongolian princesses married Korean princes in order to kept Korea under Mongolian influence and during early 1900s (1908~45) Korea was under Japanese control, and during this time Japanese government have attempt to forcefully assimilate Korean people as Japanese people, hence Japanese government banned usage of Korean language even banned many Korean folk cultures. But it wasn't successful.

Korean culture:
Most people misunderstood about Korean culture, many Chinese nationals thinks Koreans have been borrowing from Chinese culture and same for Japanese nationals thinks Koreans have stole their culture.

Please note, Korean culture is very old, it's not something made out of during modern days.
Due to close proximity of Korean peninsula with neighboring nations like China and Japan, there are many overlapping cultures.



Any questions?

Edited by SNK_1408, 24 September 2009 - 03:48 PM.


#2 xiaolongbao

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Posted 24 September 2009 - 03:57 PM

Very comprehensive and informative. You've really done your homework. Here's another study I came across.

Study of Korean Male Origins

Sunghee Hong, Seong-Gene Lee, Yongsook Yoon, Kyuyoung Song
University of Ulsan College of Medicine, 388-1 Poongnap-dong, Songpa-ku, Seoul, Korea

Population studies of genetic markers such as HLA variation and mitochondrial DNA have been used to understand human origins, demographic and migration history. Recently, diversity on the nonrecombining portion of the Y chromosome (NRY) has been applied to the study of human history. Since NRY is passed from father to son without recombination, polymorphisms in this region are valuable for investigating male-mediated gene flow and for complementing maternally based studies of mtDNA. Haplotypes constructed from Y-chromosome markers were used to trace the paternal origins of Korean. By using 38 Y chromosome single nucleotide polymorphism markers, we analyzed the genetic structure of 195 Korean males. The Korean males were characterized by a diverse set of 4 haplogroups (Groups IV, V, VII, X) and 14 haplotypes that were also present in Chinese. The most frequent haplogroup in Korean was Group VII (82.6%). It was also the most frequent haplogroup in Chinese (95%) as well as in Japanese (45%). The frequencies of the haplogroups V, IV, and X were 15.4%, 1%, and 1%, respectively. The second most frequent haplogroup V in Korean was not present in Chinese, but its frequency was similar in Japanese. We have tried to correlate the Y variation with surname to determine how well the clan membership corresponds to Y variation.

Edited by xiaolongbao, 24 September 2009 - 04:26 PM.


#3 Missladybunny

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Posted 24 September 2009 - 08:47 PM

national geographic did a special on the "origins" of man and migration movements
Just because you are Korean now our Asian doesn't mean you maternal ancestors came from there.

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/chan...man-family-tree

This is apart of the human Genographic Project.It cost a little over a 100 dollars to purchase but if you are really serious about learning your own origins.On a generic level past DNA and see were your family migrated then advise you to do it.So you will have black and white proof of your own personal origins.

#4 SNK_1408

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Posted 25 September 2009 - 02:06 AM

Thanks for posting supporting information xiaolongbao.
That Y-Chromosome study is perfect example of early human migration which show the pattern of common Y-chromosome markers that can trace from all East Asians. How is this possible? Simplest answer is "human migration". Without human migration, each people would have evolved very differently however, then we wouldn't be all homosapien.

Posted Image
- This map is another perfect example of showing where, what how people moved around.
As you can clearly see human migration is originated from Africa, went through India, Tibet, Mongolia and China then to Siberia and Korea and finally reached Japan.

This explain the where Korean ancestors originated from and how they became 'Korean'.

Missladybunny, yes you are correct.
Please note modern ethnicity (nationality) does not always translate your full racial profile.

Good example; there is very popular Korean R&B singer named Yoon Mirae (aka Tasha Reid), she's always known tobe Korean, and despite her unique looks she look very much look Asian.

Posted Image
This is her in the middle with her hubby and child.

She is half black and half Korean, her mother was married to Afro-American male in South Korea and she was raised in both America and Korea, and went through some hardship because of being little different than Koreans.

Edited by SNK_1408, 25 September 2009 - 02:09 AM.


#5 xiaolongbao

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Posted 25 September 2009 - 07:39 PM

Thanks for posting supporting information xiaolongbao.
That Y-Chromosome study is perfect example of early human migration which show the pattern of common Y-chromosome markers that can trace from all East Asians. How is this possible? Simplest answer is "human migration". Without human migration, each people would have evolved very differently however, then we wouldn't be all homosapien.

Just look at the genetic diversity of Africa.

http://news.bbc.co.u...ure/8027269.stm

Edited by xiaolongbao, 25 September 2009 - 07:40 PM.


#6 SNK_1408

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Posted 26 September 2009 - 04:43 PM

View Postxiaolongbao, on Sep 26 2009 4 39 AM, said:

Just look at the genetic diversity of Africa.

http://news.bbc.co.u...ure/8027269.stm

Ofcourse, Africa is another world we've forgotten.
Just look at North Africans and South Africans, they are so diverse people.

#7 Keiryu40

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Posted 28 September 2009 - 06:16 PM

I agree. One thing is a lot of Koreans go wrong here is they think they are related to the Japanese and Chinese. They only look similar to Japanese because of geography and climate yes. Koreans are not related to the Japanese at all.

One of the other things people go wrong about Koreans is they think Koreans are always pale and have single eyelids. There are Koreans who look SEA.

Posted Image

Edited by Keiryu40, 28 September 2009 - 06:17 PM.


#8 SNK_1408

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Posted 29 September 2009 - 06:38 AM

^
Yes, it's more like some Japanese people are related to Korean people. No Koreans are related to Japanese people other than result of some Japanese immigrants landed on Korea.
Not all Koreans have pale skins or single eyelids, these people at Southern parts of Korean peninsula have SE Asian/Austronesian features too. This is because of some SE Asian immigrants have landed on Korean peninsula during past 10,000 years of making.

If you read the scientific research paper link that I have included in original post, you can understand 30% of Koreans do have Chinese and SE Asian genes, and rest of 70% of Koreans are basically result of northern migration from NE Asian continent.

These Koreans looking SE Asian doesn't necessary means they are related to SE Asian, it's again due to warmer climate in South Korea. Only low percentage of single or couple of genetic markers are shared by Koreans and South East Asians suggesting Koreans are distanced from SE Asian people.

However, using mt-DNA analysis; Japanese people do share very close genetic markers with Koreans so what's all this mean? are this mean Japanese people and Korean people are related? Yes & No.

Remember this?
http://www.jref.com/...se_people.shtml

Some of the early ancient immigrants that reached Japan came via Korean peninsula resulting some mixed people in between.

Look at the gene movement map:
Posted Image
See how genetic markers moved from place to place.

Korean people are probably shared common origins with people who lived under this yellow shaded regions.
Posted Image
This is map of showing distribution of ancient stone graves called Dolmen.

Let's see where Korean people are lies between other Asians.
Posted Image

As you can clearly see Koreans sit right between Beijing Chinese (NE Chinese), Japanese and closer to Mongolian than any other Asians.

Edited by SNK_1408, 29 September 2009 - 06:42 AM.


#9 yuki100

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 09:05 PM

View PostSNK_1408, on 29 September 2009 - 06:38 AM, said:

^
Yes, it's more like some Japanese people are related to Korean people.


Some of the early ancient immigrants that reached Japan came via Korean peninsula resulting some mixed people in between.

.

Ok, I do not mean to upset you, but - WoW the statement: "some Japanese people are related to Korean people , but no Korean is related to Japanese" is absurd - if one is related so is the other it does not go one way.

If you read the data correctly,from your own link, 15% of Koreans have C, Y-haploggroup type and so do 10% of japanese; and another 29% with O3 Y-haploggroup (koreans) share this group with 19% of japanese- and 80% of both groups also share identical mtDNA haplogroups so there is some very strong genetic links. There is also genetics links to Chinese from both Japanese and Korean groups- so Yes there is genetic diversity in both groups and neither group it's extraterrestrial.
This does not mean that both cultures are not unique or valid in their own way nor does it diminish either of them.
I just wanted to make sure that people did not get the wrong idea from "The Peopling of Korea Revealed by Analyses of Mitochondrial DNA and Y-Chromosomal Markers" data that you linked since I was peripherally involved in this project in the Louisiana State side.

One thing to remember is that genetic data gives us a picture of current genetic situation not that of thousands of years ago and one must be careful in not taking a scientific paper and misinterpreting the information to our own biases. As an example in the article "northeast asia" refers to Japan, Korea, Sheniang to Taiyuan region.

#10 Anime_X

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 11:35 PM

DNA contains the answers because its a genetic history of their evolutionary process.

But here is a short paragraph from Wiki:

"Studies of polymorphisms in the human Y-chromosome have so far produced evidence to suggest that the Korean people have a very long history as a distinct, mostly endogamous ethnic group with successive waves of people moving to the peninsula and three major Y-chromosome haplogroups.[20] Korean males display a high frequency of a derived subclade of possibly Manchurian origin, Haplogroup O2b* (P49). In fact, Haplogroup O2b* is the second-most common Y-chromosome haplogroup in Korea, occurring in approximately 14%[21][22][23] to 33%[24] of all Korean males.

There is moderate to high frequency of Haplogroup O3 and Haplogroup C3. Origin of Haplogroup O3 is thought to be diverse, some of them having expanded from Manchuria with Haplogroup O2b and some of them having expanded from southern China by people with rice agriculture such as the Hmongs. Haplogroup C3 is thought to be the original inhabitants of the area related to the Nivkhs.

A population genetic study[25] demonstrated DNA evidence of the origin of Koreans from the central Asian Mongolians."

I just think koreans and japanese people just descended from people in central Asia (modern day China).

Edited by Anime_UK, 14 December 2009 - 11:48 PM.


#11 SNK_1408

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 02:19 AM

View Postyuki100, on 14 December 2009 - 09:05 PM, said:

Ok, I do not mean to upset you, but - WoW the statement: "some Japanese people are related to Korean people , but no Korean is related to Japanese" is absurd - if one is related so is the other it does not go one way.

If you read the data correctly,from your own link, 15% of Koreans have C, Y-haploggroup type and so do 10% of japanese; and another 29% with O3 Y-haploggroup (koreans) share this group with 19% of japanese- and 80% of both groups also share identical mtDNA haplogroups so there is some very strong genetic links. There is also genetics links to Chinese from both Japanese and Korean groups- so Yes there is genetic diversity in both groups and neither group it's extraterrestrial.
This does not mean that both cultures are not unique or valid in their own way nor does it diminish either of them.
I just wanted to make sure that people did not get the wrong idea from "The Peopling of Korea Revealed by Analyses of Mitochondrial DNA and Y-Chromosomal Markers" data that you linked since I was peripherally involved in this project in the Louisiana State side.

One thing to remember is that genetic data gives us a picture of current genetic situation not that of thousands of years ago and one must be careful in not taking a scientific paper and misinterpreting the information to our own biases. As an example in the article "northeast asia" refers to Japan, Korea, Sheniang to Taiyuan region.

I wasn't referring to genetic markers, of course in terms of genetic markers all Asians are related.
I was referring to direct ancestry going back to less than 2000 years.
Many Japanese people have openly spoken about their direct ancestry back to Korean peninsula.
Even today, group of Japanese still travels to Korea to search for their ancestor and pays respect at their burial grounds.

Please note, No Koreans do this.


View PostAnime_UK, on 14 December 2009 - 11:35 PM, said:

DNA contains the answers because its a genetic history of their evolutionary process.

But here is a short paragraph from Wiki:

"Studies of polymorphisms in the human Y-chromosome have so far produced evidence to suggest that the Korean people have a very long history as a distinct, mostly endogamous ethnic group with successive waves of people moving to the peninsula and three major Y-chromosome haplogroups.[20] Korean males display a high frequency of a derived subclade of possibly Manchurian origin, Haplogroup O2b* (P49). In fact, Haplogroup O2b* is the second-most common Y-chromosome haplogroup in Korea, occurring in approximately 14%[21][22][23] to 33%[24] of all Korean males.

There is moderate to high frequency of Haplogroup O3 and Haplogroup C3. Origin of Haplogroup O3 is thought to be diverse, some of them having expanded from Manchuria with Haplogroup O2b and some of them having expanded from southern China by people with rice agriculture such as the Hmongs. Haplogroup C3 is thought to be the original inhabitants of the area related to the Nivkhs.

A population genetic study[25] demonstrated DNA evidence of the origin of Koreans from the central Asian Mongolians."

I just think koreans and japanese people just descended from people in central Asia (modern day China).

You might be right, in terms of genetic follows this pattern.
NE China ---> Southern Manchuria ---> Korean peninsula ---> Japan

This was pattern of migration during approx. 2500~3000 years and stopped around 16th century.


Quote

Scientific consortium maps the range of genetic diversity in Asia, and traces the genetic origins of Asian populations

December 11, 2009 · Posted in Research
by Dr. Vikrant Kumar, Genome Institute of Singapore

As an anthropologist, I always wanted to know if Asians, known for their extensive linguistic and ethnic diversity also have a substantial level of genetic variation. In other words, do they have a common or multiple origins? Or whether the ancestors of Negritos from Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia differ from those of their neighboring Asians? Or what binds us more: language or geography? The recent paper published in Science by the HUGO Pan-Asian SNP Consortium – Mapping Human Genetic Diversity in Asia quintessentially answers these fundamental questions which have been floating around for years.

To the best of my understanding, so far, this is the only paper where 73 populations scattered across 10 Asian countries are studied together through a massive collaborative effort of scientists from 40 institutes mostly from Asia (~2000 samples covering almost entire spectrum of linguistic and ethnic diversity were genotyped for ~50000 single nucleotide polymorphic markers). Some of the key findings of this paper are:

· East and Southeast Asians share a common origin.

· East Asians have mainly originated from South East Asian populations with minor contributions from Central-South Asian groups.

· A common ancestor of the Negrito and non-Negrito populations of Asia entered into the continent. This supports the hypothesis of one wave of migration into Asia as opposed to two waves of migrations from Africa.

· The Taiwan aborigines are derived from Austronesian populations. This stands in contrast to the suggestion that this island served as the ancestral “homeland” for Austronesian speaking populations throughout the Indo-Pacific.

· Genetic ancestry is highly correlated with linguistic affiliations as well as geography.

The paper stands out in its attempt to understand the peopling of Asia and their genetic relationships and in the process it not only presents a fantastic genotype database but also provides vital clues to scientists of diverse fields –from linguistics to archeology to human genetics. For example, it may be an interesting proposition for a human geneticist to examine if East and Southeast Asians share, more than expected, risk alleles associated with diseases. Likewise, it may be time for the linguists to re-look at the “birthplace” of the Austronesian linguistic family. I hope the consortium continues with their amazing endeavor and include a lot more number of important and isolated populations from whole of Asia and move beyond the analysis of Single Nucleotide Polymorphism to other kinds such as structural variations.

Please see below the fold for the official press release.


Several genome-wide studies of human genetic diversity have been conducted on European populations. Now, for the first time, over 90 scientists from the Human Genome Organisation’s (HUGO’s) Pan-Asian SNP Consortium have extended this study to 73 Southeast Asian (SEA) and East Asian (EA) populations. This human genetic mapping of Asia has important implications, especially in the further understanding of migratory patterns in human history, and for the study of genetics and diseases. The findings were published online in a report in Science on 10 December 2009.

The study, conducted within and between the different populations in the Asia continent, showed that genetic ancestry was highly correlated with ethnic and linguistic groups. There was a clear increase in genetic diversity from northern to southern latitudes. The study also suggested that there was one major inflow of human migration into Asia arising from Southeast Asia, rather than multiple inflows from both southern and northern routes as proposed before. This indicates that Southeast Asia was the major geographic source of East Asian and North Asian populations (see accompanying picture). Moreover, the geographical and linguistic basis of genetic subgroups in Asia clarifies the need for genetic stratification when conducting genetic and pharmacogenomic studies in this continent.

One of the corresponding authors, Professor Edison Liu, Executive Director at the Genome Institute of Singapore (GIS), and the President of the HUGO which initiated and coordinated this research, said, “This study was a milestone not only in the science that emerged, but the consortium that was formed. 10 Asian countries came together in the spirit of solidarity to understand how we were related as a people, and we finished with a truly Asian scientific community. We overcame shortage of funds and diverse operational constraints through partnerships, good will, and cultural sensitivity.”

Professor Liu also added that, “Affymetrix, led by Dr. Giulia C. Kennedy and based in the US, is our primary technology partner in this endeavour. We greatly appreciate their support. Our next goal is to expand this collaboration to all of Asia including Central Asia and the Polynesian Islands. We also aim to be more detailed in our genomic analysis and plan to include structural variations, as well as over a million single nucleotide polymorphisms in the next analysis.”

Source: http://www.hugo-inte...org/blog/?p=123

Posted Image

This study map strongly shows ancient Koreans came from NE China and East coast of China and ancient Japanese came from via Korean peninsula.
Hence in terms of culture & genetic, they are closest.

In terms of the three North East Asians: Chinese, Koreans, and Japanese
The HUGO study says, taking the difference between Asians and Africans out of 100 points, as a standard:

Chinese and Koreans are different by 5.03.

Koreans and Japanese are different by 4.23.

Chinese and Japanese are different by 6.99.

#12 xiaolongbao

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 05:43 PM

The origins of Taiwanese aborigines is still in dispute. While genetically it's probable that they are of Austronesian and Malaypolynesian ancestry, linguistically it's probable that Malayo Indonesian languages were actually derived from Taiwanese aboriginal languages.

#13 SNK_1408

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 02:56 AM

^ That's out of topic issue.
If you want to discuss Taiwanese aborigines then create another thread.

#14 xiaolongbao

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 08:57 PM

It was brought up in your post in that quote from Dr. Kumar. Just wanted to clear that up.

#15 PearledOrchid

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 08:59 PM

That was very informative. I didn't think that the genetic difference between the Koreans and Chinese (5.03) is lower than the genetic difference between the Chinese and Japanese (6.99). I always thought that Chinese (Fujian people) and Japanese share more facial similarities. It's always good to learn something new.

#16 imaginator

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 12:55 PM

Korea used to be part of China. In the old days they also collaborated with Chinese. I;m sure there were some mixing there.

Anyway, a lot of korean words are borrowed from Hokkien. Hokkien was the language of the Tang Dynasty. Until today, koreans still use many hokkien words such as book, bridge, student, news, care, really, buns, thank you, etc all sound exactly the same as hokkien.

Koreans look different because they live upper in the north, hence they have whiter skin and better complexion. But people in north china such as Dalian and other cities also have the same white and smooth complexion.

#17 SNK_1408

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Posted 22 December 2009 - 01:22 AM

View PostPearledOrchid, on 17 December 2009 - 08:59 PM, said:

That was very informative. I didn't think that the genetic difference between the Koreans and Chinese (5.03) is lower than the genetic difference between the Chinese and Japanese (6.99). I always thought that Chinese (Fujian people) and Japanese share more facial similarities. It's always good to learn something new.

Looks can be deceiving because Koreans have similar facial similarities with Mongolian and yet Mongolian and Koreans are very distant relative, further away than NE Chinese and Japanese.


View Postimaginator, on 20 December 2009 - 12:55 PM, said:

Korea used to be part of China. In the old days they also collaborated with Chinese. I;m sure there were some mixing there.

Anyway, a lot of korean words are borrowed from Hokkien. Hokkien was the language of the Tang Dynasty. Until today, koreans still use many hokkien words such as book, bridge, student, news, care, really, buns, thank you, etc all sound exactly the same as hokkien.

Koreans look different because they live upper in the north, hence they have whiter skin and better complexion. But people in north china such as Dalian and other cities also have the same white and smooth complexion.

If you say that to Koreans, Koreans will be insulted.
Parts of Korean peninsula was part of Han Dynasty for period of occupation but ancestry of Chinese and Koreans are very different as well as spoken languages.
Korean never really was part of China for last 2000 years other than became vassal state for various Empires such as Yuan and Qing. Other than this Korea maintain relatively peaceful relations with Jin, Song, and Ming.

The only time Korea was invaded couple of times was by Liao Khitan, Yuan Mongols and Qing Manchus, they were never written as Chinese empire according to Korean records. They've always asked Korea to join them to conquer China, and eventually Korea was forced to join them on final stages of conquering Chinese states.
Every Chinese person should know, Korean kingdoms were forced to fight along with Yuan and Qing when they were killing thousands of Chinese.

Korean Sino-words (borrowed Chinese words aka Hanja) came to Korea via Han Dynasty~Song Dynasty trained scholars (including anything in between such as Tang). This could be why Hanja sound more like Tang accent.
Japanese also use Sino-words too, actually much more than Korean.

Ancient Korean states sent hundreds of scholars to China to learn Chinese laws, Hanja and culture so that they can brought back knowledge from mainland and also used China as location to contact with West such as Persian, Mongolia, Tibet, Arabia, Vietnam and India.

Skin color is not important because there are dark skin Koreans too, Koreans look more like Mongolian because Korea have been getting alot of Mongolian-Tungus tribes as they searched for warmer climate during about last major ice age. They eventually settled in Korean peninsula and became Koreans, almost 80% of Koreans today share close genetic relationship with Tungus people in Manchuria regions.

Korean peninsula is warmest area that connects NE Asian continent (China, Mongolia, Manchuria & Siberia), all the Korean ports are only ports in NE Asian continent that don't get frozen during coldest days in winter and this was why Russian also sent expedition to invade Korea before during 18th century but failed.

South Korea produce more grains, veggies and fruits than any other areas in NE Asian continent, most of Korea's traded goods were herbs, fruits, fish, paper, medicine, books to NE Asian neighbors. This was why printing was quite developed in Korea as well as medicine. Because of warmer climate and perfect four seasoned mountains, Korea is also well known for very tasteful fruits and veggies.

By the 14th century Korea became one of richest & well developed state in NE Asia, thus this attracted many pirates and bandits from Japan to Manchuria, both Jurchens and Japanese pirates and bandits frequently raided Korean coaster villages and towns. Japanese pirates raided Korea's coaster villages about 1000 times since from 12 to 16th century. And this was well-documented in Korean records. Other skirmishes were from aggressive Jurchen tribes at North, they frequently raided Korea's Northern villages and towns. Thus, to rule out the troubles, Korea and China held several boarder meetings in attempt to control bandits and mountain thieves, and last boarder agreement was with Qing Manchu dynasty.

Edited by SNK_1408, 22 December 2009 - 01:23 AM.


#18 levig090

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Posted 27 December 2009 - 03:11 AM

thanks for the detailed info it was very interesting. what saddens me about modern south koreans is the need to pursue beauty hence having to pursue surgeries to achieve that goal.

#19 SNK_1408

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 04:01 AM

View Postlevig090, on 27 December 2009 - 03:11 AM, said:

thanks for the detailed info it was very interesting. what saddens me about modern south koreans is the need to pursue beauty hence having to pursue surgeries to achieve that goal.

That's off topic.
Most developed countries are into cosmetic touchups, singling out South Korean women on this is not fair when even others purse surgeries to achieve "perceived beauties". It's common place from Hollywood to entertainment industry of the world. Almost all Hollywood stars are into plastic surgeries to achieve maximum "perceived beauty". What sadden me is that Pinoys and Thais pursuing ladyboy dreams.

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 08:27 AM

View PostSNK_1408, on 15 December 2009 - 02:19 AM, said:

I wasn't referring to genetic markers, of course in terms of genetic markers all Asians are related.
I was referring to direct ancestry going back to less than 2000 years.
Many Japanese people have openly spoken about their direct ancestry back to Korean peninsula.
Even today, group of Japanese still travels to Korea to search for their ancestor and pays respect at their burial grounds.

Please note, No Koreans do this.




You might be right, in terms of genetic follows this pattern.
NE China ---> Southern Manchuria ---> Korean peninsula ---> Japan

This was pattern of migration during approx. 2500~3000 years and stopped around 16th century.




Source: http://www.hugo-inte...org/blog/?p=123

Posted Image

This study map strongly shows ancient Koreans came from NE China and East coast of China and ancient Japanese came from via Korean peninsula.
Hence in terms of culture & genetic, they are closest.

In terms of the three North East Asians: Chinese, Koreans, and Japanese
The HUGO study says, taking the difference between Asians and Africans out of 100 points, as a standard:

Chinese and Koreans are different by 5.03.

Koreans and Japanese are different by 4.23.

Chinese and Japanese are different by 6.99.

Please! That out of Africa theory is being forced upon us and getting suspect by the day. This is how it happened.
http://erectuswalksamongst.us/SecIV.html
Read the whole thing
http://erectuswalksamongst.us/





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