24 replies to this topic

[llwy12]

So is TVB doing a good job or not? (Part 1 in a series of articles)
By Guo Qian Cheng

Friday, May 21, 2010 Hong Kong

Source: Ming Pao
http://www.mingpaowe...100521/mee1.htm

Translation: llwy12@ http://asianfanatics.net


Throughout the years, there has been frequent criticism toward TVB – besides the concerns about how the station handles its news programs, the biggest complaint by far is TVB’s lack of creativity and lack of consistent progress (improvement).

So is TVB doing a bad job? In comparisons to other local (Hong Kong) TV stations, they are actually doing quite well – or perhaps the blame should be placed on the other local stations for doing so poorly.

For the past few decades, TVB has owned over 80% of the Hong Kong television audience pool. Every year, the station has at least one (if not more) highly rated and highly acclaimed series, plus a bunch of game shows and variety shows with a huge audience following – for a local TV station, it has already achieved a certain level of ‘success’ in satisfying basic audience needs.

If that’s the case, then which area does TVB need to improve?

By setting our sights further – not just looking at Hong Kong, but at the TV stations in the neighboring Asian regions – we will be able to see how others have ‘improved.’

By doing such a comparison [between TVB and other stations outside HK], it is easy to discover that in the past 10 to 20 years, TVB has not progressed (‘improved’) much. Of course, if we factor ATV into the comparison, the situation is even worse.

It is true that looking at a station’s ratings alone may not necessarily be an indicator that it is regressing or moving forward very slowly; however by paying just slight attention to the various channels and productions of the stations in other regions, it is already obvious that the others have progressed a lot – not only have these regions ‘caught up’ with Hong Kong, but on certain levels, they have already ‘surpassed’ them.

Currently, Hong Kong drama series are represented almost exclusively by TVB – however the station’s ‘creative’ production methods have not changed much since the 80s and 90s. In addition, production budgets have continued to shrink and the content of the series produced are geared more and more toward local (HK) audiences.

At one point, Japanese and Korean dramas created a huge trend-setting phenomenon in the industry, which proves that the productions from these 2 countries have progressed greatly. Same goes for Taiwan and mainland China drama series, which have greatly increased production costs due to huge demand in the market. This is especially true in mainland China: for example, the highly rated and highly acclaimed mainland China series <<Three Kingdoms>> boasts a production cost of 1.8 million Yuan (CNY/RMB) per episode; another genre of series – one that reflects how every day people live in modern society – is starting to become more and more popular in China.

In recent years, there have been very few Hong Kong drama series that are creative or explore different genres and themes. Also, with the overwhelming number of sequels produced each year, the ‘creativity’ has pretty much resided in the “successes” of the past.

With many of the behind-the-scenes crew (producers and writers) who have been responsible for most of the station’s highest rated and most highly acclaimed series leaving TVB this year, the concern over whether TVB will try to improve its ‘creativity flaws” becomes even greater.

Of course, there are other problems as well, which will be further discussed in future articles.

[ai.s2]

so true.. in Hong Kong even if TVB is actually degrading instead of improving it's still king, but if you compare it to other countries esp Korea, they've risen up soo much not only in dramas but every other area too,
i don't think there's anything wrong with some the production methods of 80s/90s coz they're were quite advanced for its time, and it gives very realistic feel, but its more like the working attitude, and the decrease in production costs, they dont even pay attention to props these days, they use 5 different babies to potray the role of one baby in one drama, thinking the audience cant differentiate a large eyed baby to a single eyelid baby, and my god, they werent even the age they were meant to be, and gosh in some dramas they're so stingy with the set and costumes, i was looking back to glittering days, and although the set wasnt that great, at least they made an effort to make it look realistic to its time period, and then you look at the more recent dramas like beauty of the game & they're holding supposedly grand beauty pageants/ award shows on dodgy stages with dodgy seats, clearly making no effort whatever so ever to make it look real
eck sorry about the rant, 90s even up to around 2005 dramas were so good compared to now,

[tamaya]

I recall watching a tv program somewhere in 1990s whereby tvb artistes openly voiced their grievances in a tvb forum. There were Jessica Hsuan, Louis Koo, and Ekin Cheng, and Adam Cheng. Even then, Louis (I think) complained about old-fashioned and worn-out tvb props. And Jessica complained about tvb double standard treatments for different artistes.

Like an aging dynasty, TVB's problems have been accumulating throughout the decades, but only now taking an immediate urgency for revolutionary change for survival.

Edited by tamaya, 21 May 2010 - 04:29 PM.

[athlon]

Monopoly cause conservatism.. People can complain, but do they have alternatives?

[Tumby_tum]

No competition... no improvement!!!

[Kim4ever]

If you compare TVB to ATV then it is doing extremely well! Ppl will watch it no matter how bad it gets, its not that they have a better choice! They will watch and they will continue to complain. They just love doing it, it became a habit! or hobbie?

[Ulun]

TVB did very well in HK. TVB should expand out from HK......

[aznballerzzz]

tvb dramas compared to korean drama.. thats why korean drama is still a big trend

[jjding]

I've to agree. Nowsaday, every single series from TVB does not flow throughout. Sometimes, we may get lucky and have some series that are abit more consistent. I remember back then when my family used to rent video tapes...we were so eager for the next episodes coming. Although, we spent quite abit of money but it was so worth it!! However, I don't have that kinda rush/urge anymore and its free now to watch online!! This is sad when there's no competition, there's no improvement. The worst thing is that the better script usually goes to the younger generation (majority of them can't act). In the end, we get to watch serie with okay script but bad acting or else bad script with good acting. Oh not to mention, TVB keeps throwing the same actresses/actors at us....sadly, even if some of them are okay, its gets boring with the same couples from one serie to another!! I had totally lose hope on them!!

[SomeAsianDude]

Its so true... TVB has not been adapting to the current market and are now falling behind other Asian drama stations. I always find most TVB dramas are light-hearted and comedic... they need to add more variety to their genre. In my opinion, they should do a overhaul and make darker, more tragic dramas. Im actually tired of watching these light-hearted TVB dramas. Nowadays people want realistic, darker, and down to earth kind of dramas. Not those overly simplified, unrealistic, light-hearted dramas that are characterized now. They need to adapt to change! It'll be a welcome change to the HK audience as well as to others watching TVB.

[strawberry_hit]

^ right on that one..no days (not always) good acting..average to bad script....good storyline.crap acting. wonder why HK tv station is like what it is now...there's far too little competition. small pool to choose from..looking at other countries there's always fresh cast ...ah being dominate isn't always a good thing ...i don't think this situation will ever change. I mean even an average tvb rating hmm arond 25 (i think) is still better then atv...so it's not like HK audience have another choice...unless suddenly everyone decided to go online...haha

[Gabriel Knight]

I don't think only producers and scriptwriters are to blame for this lag behind other Asian dramas, artists must also take responsibility for that. It's not that I criticize young generations of TVB artists nowadays, but indeed, their acting skills are just average compared with other TVB veterans in the 1980s and 1990s.

Can you compare Raymond Lam, Bosco Wong, Ron Ng, Sammul Chan, and Kenneth Ma with the 5 TVB Tigers (Tony Leung, Andy Lau, Felix Wong, Michael Miu and Kent Tong) in the early 1980s? It will be a lame comparison because the Tigers' talents are really more outstanding than these young actors nowadays even when they were at mid-20s. And as to actresses, can we name an actress who can have an excellent performance that boosted her into TVB's most favored fadans like Kitty Lai or Sheren Tang just in a series like "the New Heavenly Sword and Dragon Saber"? I guess we can't.

When the script is not good, viewers will take more notice to artists' acting to see if they can do something to "save" a drowning storyline. If the artists have talents to do that, they'll succeed and get more famed. But if not, they'll get "drowning" with the unsuccessful series too, and I see a lot of cases like that.

Why do such veterans as Sheren Tang, Liza Wong, Michelle Yim... get more attention than young artists in the series they star with new generations? Simply, because young actresses have no enough good talents to get achievements that Kitty Lai and Sheren Tang obtained when they were at young ages. Briefly, TVB producers, scriptwriters and artists all are to blame when TVB dramas are not competitive with other Asian dramas nowadays.

[reiyi]

llwy12, on 21 May 2010 - 08:29 AM, said:

With many of the behind-the-scenes crew (producers and writers) who have been responsible for most of the station’s highest rated and most highly acclaimed series leaving TVB this year, the concern over whether TVB will try to improve its ‘creativity flaws” becomes even greater.

I wonder why are so many capable crew leaving. Is it because of the Stephan Chan case?

Edited by reiyi, 22 May 2010 - 09:49 AM.

[llwy12]

reiyi, on 22 May 2010 - 09:30 AM, said:

I wonder why are so many capable crew living. Is it because of the Stephan Chan case?

Some of it, yes (remember the 2 producers that TVB fired a few months ago because they were supposedly part of the "Chan gang"?). Also, when all those layoffs occurred a couple months back, majority of the people "let go" were behind the scenes people (very few actual artists). Others (such as long-time scriptwriter Cheung Wah Biu) resigned on their own accord because they probably got a better offer elsewhere...

Edited by llwy12, 22 May 2010 - 09:45 AM.

[reiyi]

ai.s2, on 21 May 2010 - 03:09 PM, said:

so true.. in Hong Kong even if TVB is actually degrading instead of improving it's still king, but if you compare it to other countries esp Korea, they've risen up soo much not only in dramas but every other area too,
i don't think there's anything wrong with some the production methods of 80s/90s coz they're were quite advanced for its time, and it gives very realistic feel, but its more like the working attitude, and the decrease in production costs, they dont even pay attention to props these days, they use 5 different babies to potray the role of one baby in one drama, thinking the audience cant differentiate a large eyed baby to a single eyelid baby, and my god, they werent even the age they were meant to be, and gosh in some dramas they're so stingy with the set and costumes, i was looking back to glittering days, and although the set wasnt that great, at least they made an effort to make it look realistic to its time period, and then you look at the more recent dramas like beauty of the game & they're holding supposedly grand beauty pageants/ award shows on dodgy stages with dodgy seats, clearly making no effort whatever so ever to make it look real
eck sorry about the rant, 90s even up to around 2005 dramas were so good compared to now,

I disagree with them making no effort. The baby part,it is because under the law, they cannot put babies to work for long hours. So, they have to use different babies. As for Beauty Game, I also think it's ridiculous that they hold the award show in such a lousy place. But, does this mean that the production crew didn't care and didn't make effort or were they just alloted a small budget? I feel that Glittering Days was a bigger production than Beauty Game from the start. I like Beauty Game. I think it's storyline is better than Beyond the Realm of Conscience. But, it's very obvious that this series suffers from a constrained budget. Maybe the money all goes to big production like Beyond the Realm of Conscience, Born Rich and Gem of Life already.

llwy12, on 22 May 2010 - 09:44 AM, said:

Some of it, yes (remember the 2 producers that TVB fired a few months ago because they were supposedly part of the "Chan gang"?). Also, when all those layoffs occurred a couple months back, majority of the people "let go" were behind the scenes people (very few actual artists). Others (such as long-time scriptwriter Cheung Wah Biu) resigned on their own accord because they probably got a better offer elsewhere...

I think some also leave because they are disheartened by TVB's treatment of Stephen Chan? I mean, one day, it might be them. Stephen was a good boss and very friendly. Even Eric Tsang said so.

Edited by reiyi, 22 May 2010 - 10:26 AM.

[llwy12]

reiyi, on 22 May 2010 - 09:54 AM, said:

I think some also leave because they are dishearten by TVB treatment of Stephen Chan? I mean, one day, it might be them? Stephen was a good boss and very friendly. Even Eric Tsang said so.

Good point! Especially if the rumors surrounding how Stephen got "outed" (lost the power struggle) are true....and it's not just how they treat him, but how they treat artists in general. The one that sticks out in my mind the most is how they blamed the whole HK Film Awards fiasco on the poor editing guy -- and basically threw him out there as the scapegoat to get the media off their backs....of course, there are plenty other examples as well, but this is one of the most blatant ones in my opinion....

Edited by llwy12, 22 May 2010 - 10:17 AM.

[tamaya]

llwy12, on 22 May 2010 - 10:16 AM, said:

Good point! Especially if the rumors surrounding how Stephen got "outed" (lost the power struggle) are true....and it's not just how they treat him, but how they treat artists in general.

Just this week I read this article that speculates on the suspicious circumstances under which Stephen got 'outed' and ousted.

Gist: After having to fire more than 200 over employees in 2008, a TVB insider said that Stephen felt very bad for employees with low pay or those let go. He constantly argued with Mono Fong to improve his employees' situations, but Mona Fong was adamant with her 'bottom line" decree. But Stephen's arguments for his employees irked Ms. Fong so much she decided to promote Mr. Lee to curb the former's power. In 2009, TVB once again was going to retrench 100 over employees and inform Stephen to sign the announcement. Allegedly, Stephen right away banged the table, and refused to sign his name on the announcement notice, and with tears in his eyes, stomped out of the office. His behavior greatly angered Ms. Fong, and less than 2 weeks, ICAC began its investigation.

If this article is true, then TVB's end is inevitable.

Spoiler

陈方过节”再谈陈志云拍桌拒绝签字炒人，触怒方逸华

　　无线“高度配合”廉署展开轰动全港的“威远行动”，一直被传是陈志云栽在个人私情上，因偏帮爱徒丛培昆而触怒方逸华。南都获悉，陈志云触怒方逸华还另有内情。自去年年中，陈志云在新书签名会上遭遇“扔书”羞辱，坊间不少对无线不满人士将陈志云当成发泄对象，2008年底，无线一次性裁员200多人，裁员通告正是由总经理陈志云亲笔签发，为此他要不断在公开场合为无线解画。

　　无线内部人士称，陈志云对低薪和被裁员工深感同情，常为他们向董事局争取权益，但方逸华近年奉行“悭得就悭”的政策，对陈志云甚为不满，更提拔新宠李宝安钳制陈志云的权力。2009年期间，无线的裁员行动此起彼伏，其中一次，无线要发通告再次裁员逾百人，通告仍由陈志云签发。据说，陈志云当场拍桌子，不愿由自己签发此通告，更流着眼泪走出办公室。方逸华大为扯火，事隔不到两周，“威远行动”爆发。
http://enjoy.eastday...u1a5211597.html

[Paigne]

The article is so true. Not only have some of them (Japan, China, Korea) passed TVB, they reached a point where TVB copies their ideas. Every year TVB has a few series that completely copies the concept of a Japanese or Korean series. I haven't noticed them copy any Mainland series but the production quality (sound effects, video effects, even acting) are much much better than TVB. If ATV was smart enough to spend money and improve their dubbing crew, they might be able to do better with foreign series but their dubbing is much worst than TVB so HK rating will be dominated by TVB until either ATV changes management or another channel comes up. Only realistic way to force TVB to improve is by creating competition.

[simplenanaxd]

i think TVB needs to learn how to make themselves work better. its not the actors fault at all.

seems like TVB has never had a year in which they had more than 2 best dramas...its always one or two dramas that people LOVE...

i mean after one good drama in a year, the rest of the year is just blah...

[steamboy]

Ulun, on 21 May 2010 - 06:43 PM, said:

TVB did very well in HK. TVB should expand out from HK......

Like it was mentioned several posts available. TVB does good financially because there is no other alternative, ATV is sh*t because they broke. Cable is well... cable, and what else can they compare it with.

As with expanding out from HK, absurd! Not when they keep everything as it is... I'm not hating on your opinions, it would be interesting to see that happen, but your mama and father and I know that they won't last one week outside of HK or even China. Take HK dramas to Taiwan, and I think the ratings will plunge. Take TVB to America they will get swallowed up.


TVB is so static that their dramas are low production repeats of the same story concepts. If its not about public service, its about family, if its not about family, its about lawyers with family involved, if its not about lawyers with family involved you get ancient dramas which really is about family. The recycled ideas are simply enhanced by new subplots, different actors.You see one, you've seen them all basically.

TVB music videos is another thing that gets me, they are made of the lowest quality. I've seen homemade Youtube videos that surpass TVBJs MVs by far, you think that a professional studio did those. Frequently zooming in and out with the camera while a guy moves his arms and pretends is a dance does not equal to Korean dance MVs, where even if the camera stays static, you can feel the intensity in the clip.

On another note, I think TVB should not get suckered into the complaints of See Lai's who have nothing better to do but pick apart every scene in every show. Some of those complaints are ridiculous beyond reasoning. They need to bring their A game and take their stories and concepts to another level.

[simplenanaxd]

ATV is catching up though...due to the HKRIA dispute with TVB, artists from HKRIA companies have moved to ATV for promotion and music channels. And the interviews and music blogs that ATV provide are actually very well done...they include a lot of overseas music as well...

[SomeAsianDude]

steamboy, on 23 May 2010 - 05:11 AM, said:

As with expanding out from HK, absurd! Not when they keep everything as it is... I'm not hating on your opinions, it would be interesting to see that happen, but your mama and father and I know that they won't last one week outside of HK or even China. Take HK dramas to Taiwan, and I think the ratings will plunge. Take TVB to America they will get swallowed up.

Thats not true, TVB's Journey to the West was taken to Taiwan were it was a smash hit and became immensely popular in both Hong Kong and Taiwan and possibly other oversea territories. But that was about 15 years ago and I think if TVB tries to expand now, they wouldnt be very successful unless they start to change and adapt to the current demands of the audience.

[llwy12]

SomeAsianDude, on 23 May 2010 - 10:42 PM, said:

Thats not true, TVB's Journey to the West was taken to Taiwan were it was a smash hit and became immensely popular in both Hong Kong and Taiwan and possibly other oversea territories. But that was about 15 years ago and I think if TVB tries to expand now, they wouldnt be very successful unless they start to change and adapt to the current demands of the audience.

Don't forget that "Journey to the West" is not an original TVB story -- it's based off a Chinese novel that has been popular for ages -- so it's no surprise that the series could become popular outside of HK -- especially in the Asian regions where most Chinese are already familiar with the story.

[simplenanaxd]

i liked journey to the west...that was one most viewed drama in TVB history...the sequels weren't as good...but the one with twins in it was cute

[reiyi]

simplenanaxd, on 24 May 2010 - 11:49 PM, said:

i liked journey to the west...that was one most viewed drama in TVB history...the sequels weren't as good...but the one with twins in it was cute

The one with Twins is not produced by TVB. It's produced by Wong Jing. TVB bought the rights to air it in their station.